I'm thinking they can be very (Very VERY) lossy. Hey Upkerry14! Welcome!
I purchased a program recommended by another reader (EasyWMA) and chose the 'auto' feature for one of the Sugarmegs Sun Ra shows assuming that it would convert the file at an appropriate bitrate. It came out at 56k. (!) I noticed a note that the software does not support wma-lossless files so I'm thinking those are something somewhat special and rare. But what do I know... wma's are a foreign language to me.
I haven't had any problem with converting Supermegs using EasyWMA. I do manually set the conversion rates, usually anywhere from 192 to 320 in an mp3 format, or just as a straight aiff file to be cut up into individual tracks and converted down later. This is in the Mac platform. Much of the source material in Supermegs is not that great to begin with (audience recordings) so the fidelity is never going to be top notch, unfortunately.
I downloaded the entire Sun Ra 1971-06-12 Whidney High School Watts concert and the whole show (two and a half hours) was only 33.3 MB. So I am thinking that whatever you convert this into (wav, 320) the quality is so low to begin with that it won't make any difference... Pity - this seemed like a treasure trove at first sight!
wma files are windows media files,they play in windows media player i.e. microsofts attempt at compressed files, nowhere near the standard of a 320mp3 for sure, still found a show I'd been looking ,shakti live on the bbc so thanks
And a second thought: I guess that when Yotte had EasyWMA convert the file, the program converted it at the original compression rate: so 56K. This makes sense if a 150 min. show is to be whittled down to 33 MB (should be more like 350 MB at 320 kbs), but of course the sound will be unacceptable. (I actually tried it: I burned the show on CD and listened to it on a good system: the sound is tinny, has no depth at all, and really doesn't work as a good listening experience). I am no expert, but I would think that after compression the sound information that has been lost cannot be recovered by expanding the compressed file.
You guys are fantastic! You've brought up many good points here: Once a file is compressed there's no goin' back. Burning compressed files to a CD sounds tinny, thin, and generally unacceptable for critical listening. The Sugarmegs collection is a treasure trove.
Re. Sugarmegs, I think it's worth mentioning that the value of the their collection lies both in it it's ability to satisfy a need to hear an artifact unavailable elsewhere and as a a 'suggestion box' for music not considered previously. The files are not collector-quality but neither is most internet radio. Finding these shows on the Sugarmegs site is no substitute for owning a lossless copy, that's for sure, and I doubt anyone at Smegs would disagree. To bring it back around to Sun Ra, consider the album Taking A Chance on Chances. We all know of the pressing defect but did that stop us from listening? I can hope that someone will restore or remaster it to provide a better hi-fi experience but I also joyously jumped at the chance when Paul W offered a lossless rip. Another example - I've wanted to hear the Whidney High show for years. Now that I've heard it, I know that I should continue my search for a good copy and have a better idea of what I would be willing to pay (if necessary). Thanks, Sugarmegs! Thanks Br. Cleve, Nikos, & Reza for sharing your thoughts and to Upkerry14 for starting the discussion.
Yotte, you are right about the function of Sugarmegs and the comparison with "Taking A Chance". I would only qualify your summing-up by rephrasing to "burning EXCESSIVELY compressed files to CD sounds unacceptable" (flac, shn or mp3-320- files are compressed but much less so, and they are fine).
I'm right there with ya, nikos. I'm ok with 320k mp3s (I play cds burned from them in my car all the time) but I'll upgrade from that to lossless or an official CD in a heartbeat. It doesn't usually take even 5 seconds before the audible differences prove the purchase worthwhile.
Pardon my ignorance but I can't seem to find a straight answer googling the question: are wma files lossy or lossless? thanks, bill
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking they can be very (Very VERY) lossy. Hey Upkerry14! Welcome!
ReplyDeleteI purchased a program recommended by another reader (EasyWMA) and chose the 'auto' feature for one of the Sugarmegs Sun Ra shows assuming that it would convert the file at an appropriate bitrate. It came out at 56k. (!)
I noticed a note that the software does not support wma-lossless files so I'm thinking those are something somewhat special and rare. But what do I know... wma's are a foreign language to me.
I haven't had any problem with converting Supermegs using EasyWMA. I do manually set the conversion rates, usually anywhere from 192 to 320 in an mp3 format, or just as a straight aiff file to be cut up into individual tracks and converted down later. This is in the Mac platform. Much of the source material in Supermegs is not that great to begin with (audience recordings) so the fidelity is never going to be top notch, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI downloaded the entire Sun Ra 1971-06-12 Whidney High School Watts concert and the whole show (two and a half hours) was only 33.3 MB. So I am thinking that whatever you convert this into (wav, 320) the quality is so low to begin with that it won't make any difference... Pity - this seemed like a treasure trove at first sight!
ReplyDeletewma files are windows media files,they play in windows media player i.e. microsofts attempt at compressed files, nowhere near the standard of a 320mp3 for sure, still found a show I'd been looking ,shakti live on the bbc so thanks
ReplyDeleteAnd a second thought: I guess that when Yotte had EasyWMA convert the file, the program converted it at the original compression rate: so 56K. This makes sense if a 150 min. show is to be whittled down to 33 MB (should be more like 350 MB at 320 kbs), but of course the sound will be unacceptable. (I actually tried it: I burned the show on CD and listened to it on a good system: the sound is tinny, has no depth at all, and really doesn't work as a good listening experience). I am no expert, but I would think that after compression the sound information that has been lost cannot be recovered by expanding the compressed file.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are fantastic! You've brought up many good points here:
ReplyDeleteOnce a file is compressed there's no goin' back.
Burning compressed files to a CD sounds tinny, thin, and generally unacceptable for critical listening.
The Sugarmegs collection is a treasure trove.
Re. Sugarmegs, I think it's worth mentioning that the value of the their collection lies both in it it's ability to satisfy a need to hear an artifact unavailable elsewhere and as a a 'suggestion box' for music not considered previously. The files are not collector-quality but neither is most internet radio. Finding these shows on the Sugarmegs site is no substitute for owning a lossless copy, that's for sure, and I doubt anyone at Smegs would disagree.
To bring it back around to Sun Ra, consider the album Taking A Chance on Chances. We all know of the pressing defect but did that stop us from listening? I can hope that someone will restore or remaster it to provide a better hi-fi experience but I also joyously jumped at the chance when Paul W offered a lossless rip. Another example - I've wanted to hear the Whidney High show for years. Now that I've heard it, I know that I should continue my search for a good copy and have a better idea of what I would be willing to pay (if necessary). Thanks, Sugarmegs! Thanks Br. Cleve, Nikos, & Reza for sharing your thoughts and to Upkerry14 for starting the discussion.
Yotte, you are right about the function of Sugarmegs and the comparison with "Taking A Chance". I would only qualify your summing-up by rephrasing to "burning EXCESSIVELY compressed files to CD sounds unacceptable" (flac, shn or mp3-320- files are compressed but much less so, and they are fine).
ReplyDeleteI'm right there with ya, nikos. I'm ok with 320k mp3s (I play cds burned from them in my car all the time) but I'll upgrade from that to lossless or an official CD in a heartbeat. It doesn't usually take even 5 seconds before the audible differences prove the purchase worthwhile.
ReplyDeletei really love this song, there's also another great version on ahmed abdullah's traveling the spaceways
ReplyDeleteFusionero! Happy you came by!
ReplyDeleteYes - I had forgotten about the version on Ahmed Abdullah's amazing album.